How does the Duramax compare to the Powerstroke?
01-09-2004, 05:40 PM
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How does the Duramax compare to the Powerstroke?
Im a Chevy person myself and if I ever bought a diesel, it would have to be the Duramax simply because I would never buy a Ford or Dodge. But how well does it compare to the Powerstroke? I know that the Powerstroke has been around longer and everyday I see more and more people driving them. In my opinion, the Ford Diesels are the most popular. I like the Chevy styling much better, but I want to know if the Duramax is any better than the Powerstroke or close to it? I never really looked into any performance parts for the Duramax, but obviously theres tons out there for the Powerstroke. When I go to the track and see Diesels run, its either a Ford or Dodge. (mostly Fords) Are the Chevys not cutting it or is there not any performance parts out there for them. So in conclusion, what are your thoughts on the Duramax? Thanks
01-09-2004, 06:20 PM
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The Duramax diesel rules. At this point there are probably more aftermarket parts available for the Duramax compared to the 6.0 liter Ford powerstroke diesel. 
For 2004 a new Duramax engine RPO LLY will be offered with 310 hp and 590 torque. I think the duramax encountered a few injector problems when it was released in 01, but the number of injector problems seem to be fewer now a few years into production. The LLY Duramax has further injector improvements over the old LB7 version as well as a variable vane turbocharger. There are rumors, mostly on ford forums it seems, that there are extensive engine failures due to the aluminum cylinder heads. I have only heard of one cylinder head failure in my four years of reading about the Duramax. The aluminum heads on the duramax is a non-issue, period, end of story. The duramax also probaby uses the best automatic transmission of ford, dodge and chevy, the Allison.
The Duramax diesel is the winner between Ford, Dodge and GM when it comes to the ease of adding power without expensive fuel system/engine upgrades. The Duramax can easily produce 900+ rwtq without any changes to the engine, fuel system or turbocharger. You can reach 800 rwtq with the addition of a single performance chip on an otherwise stock truck, but it will most likely require transmission upgrades beyond that power level. The late 7.3 ford powerstroke diesel engines will require a connecting rod change to make big power as they are equipped with powerded metal rods stock. The cummins turbo diesel in the dodge trucks is probably the strongest of the 3 engines. With the right amount of cash for the necessary upgrades, it has the potential to produce absolutely staggering, mind numbing power and still be reliable.
The ford diesel trucks came with a new 6.0 liter powerstroke diesel starting in 2003. The 6.0 ford truck is probably a bit quicker than a comparable duramax truck as it has 40 more torque than the LB7 duramax. Ford has had a rash of problems with this engine, especially with the fuel injection system. Some people say that the issues are no longer present in the 2004 trucks with the 6.0 liter engine. It seems like problems are still showing up, though not as bad as in the 03 models. I have heard it shares the powered rod material as the 7.3 engine wich will limit it's potential for power, but I don't know for sure.
IMO, the Duramax is a wiser choice than the 6.0 ford PSD at this point in the game. Truth is, most of the 6.0 trucks run great, but I would hate to be one of the unlucky guys. The 6.0 is having what could be called growing pains that are a bit more severe than most. I'll be the first to admit that I drove a couple of 6.0 trucks and was very impressed with them. Quiet and powerful, just like the Duramax. The cummins is a fantastic engine, nobody is going to argue that, it is a styling thing that I don't like about the dodge trucks.
For 2004 a new Duramax engine RPO LLY will be offered with 310 hp and 590 torque. I think the duramax encountered a few injector problems when it was released in 01, but the number of injector problems seem to be fewer now a few years into production. The LLY Duramax has further injector improvements over the old LB7 version as well as a variable vane turbocharger. There are rumors, mostly on ford forums it seems, that there are extensive engine failures due to the aluminum cylinder heads. I have only heard of one cylinder head failure in my four years of reading about the Duramax. The aluminum heads on the duramax is a non-issue, period, end of story. The duramax also probaby uses the best automatic transmission of ford, dodge and chevy, the Allison.
The Duramax diesel is the winner between Ford, Dodge and GM when it comes to the ease of adding power without expensive fuel system/engine upgrades. The Duramax can easily produce 900+ rwtq without any changes to the engine, fuel system or turbocharger. You can reach 800 rwtq with the addition of a single performance chip on an otherwise stock truck, but it will most likely require transmission upgrades beyond that power level. The late 7.3 ford powerstroke diesel engines will require a connecting rod change to make big power as they are equipped with powerded metal rods stock. The cummins turbo diesel in the dodge trucks is probably the strongest of the 3 engines. With the right amount of cash for the necessary upgrades, it has the potential to produce absolutely staggering, mind numbing power and still be reliable.
The ford diesel trucks came with a new 6.0 liter powerstroke diesel starting in 2003. The 6.0 ford truck is probably a bit quicker than a comparable duramax truck as it has 40 more torque than the LB7 duramax. Ford has had a rash of problems with this engine, especially with the fuel injection system. Some people say that the issues are no longer present in the 2004 trucks with the 6.0 liter engine. It seems like problems are still showing up, though not as bad as in the 03 models. I have heard it shares the powered rod material as the 7.3 engine wich will limit it's potential for power, but I don't know for sure.
IMO, the Duramax is a wiser choice than the 6.0 ford PSD at this point in the game. Truth is, most of the 6.0 trucks run great, but I would hate to be one of the unlucky guys. The 6.0 is having what could be called growing pains that are a bit more severe than most. I'll be the first to admit that I drove a couple of 6.0 trucks and was very impressed with them. Quiet and powerful, just like the Duramax. The cummins is a fantastic engine, nobody is going to argue that, it is a styling thing that I don't like about the dodge trucks.
01-09-2004, 06:27 PM
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The 'Stroke isnt a bad engine. Made by Navistar and they make a good solid engine. DT466 and DT530 are proof of that. I like the injection method on the T444E (Powerstroke). HEUI injection was pioneered by Caterpillar. Hydraulic Actuated Electronic Controlled Unit Injector. Gives a shitload of fuel pressure. Around 23000psi on the exit side of the injector. Oil pressure can range from 800-3000psi. That oil pressure controls the rate of injection and the ECM controls the amount of fuel injected. Not sure of the injection setup on the 6.6. Im more of an I-6 diesel man. Less moving parts nice amount of low-end torque. I did hear about how the 6.6 has something called pilot injection. Its where a small amount of fuel is injected into the cylinder several degrees before the main fuel injection occurs. It creates slight pressure in the cylinder to help the rings seal against the cylinder wall and push the piston toward the thrust or power side of the cylinder. It essentially makes the engine operate a hell of alot quieter and more efficiently. On your question about the D-Max not cutting it... Chevy can cut it! I think the rage on that 6.6 is on the rise. There is alot of stuff out there for the D-Max. Same falls for the Cummins 5.9 and the 7.3 Stroke. I dont know about that 6.0 Powerstroke. I dont think its gonna be what everynoe thought it would. I guess the deciding factor is personal preference of the vehicle. I worked on the 6.5 alot and dont think I would have it or the 6.6. Id have to go with Cummins. I dont want an engine that has Isuzu stamped on the ECM. Id rather have one that says Cummins Celect!
01-09-2004, 08:47 PM
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Okay, this is just my .02, but I wouldn't drive a duratrash to save my life. GM isn't a diesel company by any means. They need to contract somebody in the US to build them a Diesel other than Isuzu. I work on diesels to support my habits, but mainly to pay bills. I can tell you right now that the 5.9, 7.3, and the 6.0 are some damn good motors. The Cummins QSB and ISB is the ****. We run a lot of 5.9 motors in our Freightliners and they will last for ever if you keep oil and fuel in them.
The "Stroke" is my motor of choice, but only the 7.3. Like everyone else said, the 6.0 has had some problems.
True story, "We pulled a "promo" 6.0 out for inspection after 6 months of hard use. These engines are built to run forever but not fall apart. Not the case here. There where "hard parts" that were literally worn out. We put over 110000K in 6 months time.
The "Stroke" is my motor of choice, but only the 7.3. Like everyone else said, the 6.0 has had some problems.
True story, "We pulled a "promo" 6.0 out for inspection after 6 months of hard use. These engines are built to run forever but not fall apart. Not the case here. There where "hard parts" that were literally worn out. We put over 110000K in 6 months time.
01-09-2004, 09:09 PM
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I am sure the argumens for and against the Ford or Chevy diesel can go on an on, but I still believe the best diesel available comes in a Dodge truck. The Cummins is rated as a medium duty engine, whereas both the Ford and Chevy are rated as light duty. The Cummins is in line with a series of 1SB motors that produce unbelievable power in other configurations. It is also a straight six motor lessening the load on individual bearings. I love GM vehicles, but I would do my pulling with a Dodge at this point in time. My Uncle has a 94 Cummins that he mod'd around 100K miles(he pulls a 12K lb trailor very often) for more torque. He now has 300K plus miles on it and it runs great. I am sure he will get many more miles in there.
Todd
Todd
01-09-2004, 10:44 PM
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It must be where you live, I see 3x more Duramax's here than Ford or Dodge.
I think almost 1/3 of the trucks here are turbo diesel because they perform a lot better at our altitute (7000ft).
I think almost 1/3 of the trucks here are turbo diesel because they perform a lot better at our altitute (7000ft).
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01-09-2004, 11:38 PM
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just my 02 cents.... first off let me tell you guys that im a chevy guy to the bone,,had several my self along with my family,67 chevy half ton,68 chevelle,71 chevelle,69 camaro,,,along with my familys past experiences,,69 half ton,,64 el camino,,etc. that being said i am also an avid diesel motor fan. i have done countless hours of research and when i buy my next truck it will be a dodge 5.9 liter I-6. why you ask. well they are just plain old a bad *** motor. less moving parts. easily bombed to make upwards of 700 plus hp and 1300 lbs of torque and still be driven daily and still get 20 miles to the gallon. one advantage of the dodge truck is if you buy a 4 x 4 it comes with a simple bullet proof straight axle set up that will last 300k easily. especially if you are out and want to actually use the 4 x 4 system it has more travel than the independants of the chevy. ford also has a 4 x 4 straight axle but it now comes with the 6.0 liter motor that has great potential but has lots of bugs in the mix with electronics. as a previous post stated...do you really want to be the one that gets a lemon ????? i also read somewhere that a question of the powdered metal connecting rods. im a bit disapointed in the person that said that as all of our ls1 based motors have powdered metal connecting rods along with the bitchen ls6 405 hp motor. so i dont believe a stregth issue is there considering some of our 4200 pound trucks are running in the 11's with the same connecting rods.
got off track a bit,,but as far as diesels go,,definetally go with the cummins powerplant its been in service for decades longer than both the d=max and the power stroke.
one interesting fact...if i had to pick a second best it would be the 7.3 liter power stroke,,i believe it was in 2002 i read that 98 percent of all powerstrokes were still on the road/being used since their introduction (not sure what year). on top of that 1 percent of that 2 percent not on the road was due to crashes,,(driver error or not) not mechanical failure. so really out of the hundred of thousands of powerstrokes built up to 2002 only 1 percent were not in service. pretty amazing if you ask me. but unfortunatally ford tried to keep up with the jone's (d-max,cummins) and tried to fix what was not broke and tried to make a more fuel efficient diesel with less cubes as the other two had and made. i dont understand why they just didnt downsize the powerstroke a few liters instead of building a new motor ?????? didnt make sense.,,thoughi do give them props on the variable pitch turbo,,thats a good idea,,but why didnt they just put the new turbo on a smaller version of the 7.3 ??? another unfortunate is the epa is trying ( an most likely will succeed) is mandating sulfer free deisel full by i beieve 2007 and implimenting a smog certificate on diesel (not sure of the date),,,,,
leave it to ignorant politicians that dont know that diesel actually burn cleaner than a gas motor. i know i know everyone is thinking of all those black smoke burping big rigs. well the truth is the (smog) part of emissions is actually the nox an carbon monoxide which is the culpret in lung/respiratory problems in people,,mainly because these two chemicals are very minute (not sure of size) but the black stuff diesels emit(called soot) is much larger and doesnt really hurt people (unless your sucking on the exhaust pipe).
just my opinion,,,,all three big companies make a good diesel but cummins is by far the best,longest lasting,most powerfull motor there is in the class. do some research or go to dodgetrucks.org and look up the cummins motor.
have a great day folks and be safe
got off track a bit,,but as far as diesels go,,definetally go with the cummins powerplant its been in service for decades longer than both the d=max and the power stroke.
one interesting fact...if i had to pick a second best it would be the 7.3 liter power stroke,,i believe it was in 2002 i read that 98 percent of all powerstrokes were still on the road/being used since their introduction (not sure what year). on top of that 1 percent of that 2 percent not on the road was due to crashes,,(driver error or not) not mechanical failure. so really out of the hundred of thousands of powerstrokes built up to 2002 only 1 percent were not in service. pretty amazing if you ask me. but unfortunatally ford tried to keep up with the jone's (d-max,cummins) and tried to fix what was not broke and tried to make a more fuel efficient diesel with less cubes as the other two had and made. i dont understand why they just didnt downsize the powerstroke a few liters instead of building a new motor ?????? didnt make sense.,,thoughi do give them props on the variable pitch turbo,,thats a good idea,,but why didnt they just put the new turbo on a smaller version of the 7.3 ??? another unfortunate is the epa is trying ( an most likely will succeed) is mandating sulfer free deisel full by i beieve 2007 and implimenting a smog certificate on diesel (not sure of the date),,,,,
leave it to ignorant politicians that dont know that diesel actually burn cleaner than a gas motor. i know i know everyone is thinking of all those black smoke burping big rigs. well the truth is the (smog) part of emissions is actually the nox an carbon monoxide which is the culpret in lung/respiratory problems in people,,mainly because these two chemicals are very minute (not sure of size) but the black stuff diesels emit(called soot) is much larger and doesnt really hurt people (unless your sucking on the exhaust pipe).
just my opinion,,,,all three big companies make a good diesel but cummins is by far the best,longest lasting,most powerfull motor there is in the class. do some research or go to dodgetrucks.org and look up the cummins motor.
have a great day folks and be safe
Hamburgler, I work on diesels too. From Cat to Detorit to Cummins. Although Cat makes a good engine and the new Detroit EGR engines suck ***, my nod goes to Cummins. Id take an old 12 valve 5.9 anyday!
